Are those complainants using converted CB rigs?

Seriously, as a "Texan" working both TQP and CQWW RTTY (almost) every year, the RTTY signals in the lower parts of the bands never bothered me.

What's wrong with these people's filters?
--K5WW

Whether some like RTTY or not, digital modes represent the future of amateur radio. Just as CW replaced spark and SSB replaced AM, RTTY and other digital modes will surely replace CW as the dominant non-voice mode.

Railing against RTTY is nothing more than attempting to hold back the tide with a push broom. All operators should be speaking out against the stupidity of bandplans (like the newly published IARU Region 2 bandplan) that propose a whopping 5 KHz for all "narrow" digital modes (7035-7040) and dump automatically controlled robots on three of the five KHz. All operators should also be encouraging the remaining administrations to expedite access to 7100-7200 and should be working for updated bandplans that would recognize the need for a significant digital spectrum on 40 meters.

40 Meter expansion in Regions 1 and 3 represents a prime opportunity to relieve the pressure caused by CW/RTTY conflicts at 7025-7040 although
nothing will completely eliminate the conflict - there are conflicts between SSB and CW in the same spectrum during nearly every major phone contest. However, in recognition of the issue, it would make sense to adopt global bandplans that encourage CW from 7000-7040, RTTY/Digital from 7040-7080 and SSB from 7080-7200. Reasonable bandplans will greatly reduce the conflict between CW and digital modes - although CW will surely move up during major CW contests and RTTY will just as surely move down somewhat during major RTTY events.

-- W4TV

One of the main probelms that I have with RTTY is that when theres is a contest on, operators show a complete disregard to other digtal modes, PSK31 and Olivia frequencies are totaly obliterated by RTTY(often with very badly modulated wide signals).

Every mode has it's place and use, why can't RTTY be the same.

The other comment I have is that RTTY is not actually "the future" of ham radio, the mode has been around for years(almost as long as SSB). Yes I use RTTY, but I also enjoy other digimodes, something which I am very often prevented from doing when theres an RTTY contest around. Perhaps the way forward would be to specify RTTY operrating sub-bands in the rules of contests instead of just specifiying band.
--Jon, M1CBH

The problem is there are way too many RTTY contests. Recently was the ultimate example, with more than one RTTY contest the same weekend!

Do away with the little ones and the problem is pretty much solved. When there's a big contest like CQWW RTTY or ARRL Roundup, it's no different than a big CW contest like CQWW CW.

During the big CW contest weekends, the band is full of CW from the band edge, going up 100+ KHz, INCLUDING the RTTY segment.

DO what's been suggested for years:
Operate the WARC bands or the other mode, away from the contest.

> The problem is there are way too many RTTY
> contests. Recently was the ultimate example,
> with more than one RTTY contest the same
> weekend!
>
> Do away with the little ones and the problem
> is pretty much solved. When there's a big
> contest like CQWW RTTY or ARRL Roundup, it's
> no different than a big CW contest like CQWW
> CW.

The same can be said for CW contests. Look at
any of the contest calendar listings and you
can find three, four or more CW contests at the
same time. The SM3CER calendar lists SIX CW
contests or all mode contests that include CW
on the weekend of 20-21 October alone.

RTTY or more broadly digital mode contesting is
no different that any other mode. Non-contesters
have been complaining about the number of CW
contests for years - now that CW contesters are
getting a taste of their own medicine, they are
starting to complain. Instead of complaining,
it is time to find a solution to the frequency
conflict that doesn't involve eliminating RTTY
contests.

The problem is not that RTTY contests occasionally operates below 7025, but that RTTY operate around 7040 nearly every weekend.

This is because there are too many duplicative RTTY contests, sponsored by various national organizations, with viturally identical rules: Everybody works anybody, qsos with the home country get more points, multipliers are home country provinces, DXCC countries, and W/VE/JA/VK call areas, and multipliers count by band. All are at least 24 hours, some are 48.

Any number of changes would improve the RTTY/CW conflict. It the British want a RTTY contest, let them work the world and have the world work only the Brits. This is the way every state QSO party operates. Or make multipliers only the home country provinces - no need to work VR2BG for a mult. Make multipliers count only once, so there is no pressing need to work everyone again on 40 meters. Shorten the contests, to say 8 to 12 hours. Hold several at the same time.

I have no objection to RTTY going down to 7001 a couple of times a year. SSB does that now, and the world survives. If the issue was limited to a few weekends a year - CQWW, WPX, WAE - the world would live with it, the guys in Texas would likely find a different weekend to hold their QSO party, and things would be cool. But having 40 CW get clobbered by RTTY 29 times a year is too much.
--K8MR
<mailto:jimk8mr@aol.com>

AA5AU: " The CQ WPX RTTY and NA CW Sprint contests share 4 hours together successfully on 40."

Not exactly true. The Sprint has been very negatively impacted by the growth of the RTTY contest. Sprinters are pretty good ops and have figured out how to work around it, but it is not fun. As a result, I believe the Sprint CW has chosen to move to a different weekend in order to avoid the RTTY contest.

It would be nice if RTTY was up above 7060 on 40m, but I know that isn't going to happen. So, will take awhile for the CW guys to get used to having some other frequency than 7040 as the suggested one for QSO parties. And let's hope no RTTY contests decide to happen on WW CW, SS CW, or ARRL DX CW weekends!

--K5ZD
<mailto:k5zd@contesting.com>

As any SO2R user knows, it is very difficult to eliminate the second harmonic of 40 meters from the 20 meter radio. This means that 7040 to 7050 is useless when there is any life on 20. Let's let the CW gang have 7040-7050 and give the RTTY users 7005-7040 and 7050 and above. This may sound crazy, but as the number of hams who do not know code increase, may be a viable option. Remember the JA's use the 7025 region.
--Jerry NO2T
<mailto:no2t@arrl.net>

First, Don, thanks for making the effort to gather opinions on RTTY operating in general and on the overcrowding problem on 40m in particular.

And, now for a good belly laugh in response to the fellow who mistakenly believes that digital modes are destined to supplant CW...AHH HA HA HA HA!
CW & RTTY have shared a peaceable coexistence for many decades. And, no 'Johnny-come-lately' mode (digital, analog, anital or digilog) will soon supplant that special relationship!
What we need is for some national amateur organization to pursue real enhancements to our precious hf bands such as the expansion of the 40m band. 6950-7550 would give all a little elbow room. Provide WinLink with 6950-7000 KHz.
Situate all expermental modes at 7300-7550 KHz.
Move *all* IARU region 2 phone back to 7150-7300 KHz. And revert 7000-7150 KHz to narrow-bandwidth modes *only*...such as CW, classic RTTY, PSK31 etc...but with autonomous subbands for each!
73, 72 & RYRYRYRY,
Bill, N4QA
--Bill, N4QA

RTTY contesting on 40 meters is centered around 7.040 because that is the RTTY DX freq. In general I will tune up or down from that freq
looking for contacts. If I find someone calling below 7.025 I will answer them. In general I try to not to call below 7.025 but if all
other portions of the band are full then I will go below that freq. When I start to go above 7.050 I will often hear SSB stations and that
makes that portion unusable. If I go above 7.080 then I will usually miss out on the DX and that is not a good option.

The same goes for 80m RTTY. Legally in the US we can’t work above 3.600 so I will start there and work my way down with S&P until I find a clear freq and I will start CQing there. If it is below 3.580 (which is usually is) then I have no problem going all the way down to 3.501 if
necessary. I find that I can usually find a clear spot around 3.560 when there is a big contest with lots of activity. Of course I have to get down to 3.520-3.525 to work JA.

--AD6WL

When there were only two prevalent modes (CW and phone), phone was restricted to subbands, but CW could be used anywhere. Back then, CW ops graciously stayed out of the phone subbands by limiting themselves to the CW-only subbands. Actually, those subbands weren't CW-only, there were just very few data signals on the air--but a lot of phone signals.

But now there are a lot of both phone signals and data signals on 40. There is a subband to which phone is restricted, a subband to which data is restricted, and those two combine to equal the entire band. Nowhere on 40 is CW as alone as it used to be.

Consequently, it's time to revisit the ancient practice of CW staying out of the phone subbands. CW is much more compatible with other modes received by ear (like SSB) than it is with modes received by eye (like RTTY). Not only do narrow CW filters eliminate SSB QRM much more effectively than RTTY QRM, but SSB and CW ops can also avoid creating excessive QRM because they can actually hear each other. Subbands based on receptor (ear vs. eye) make more sense than subbands based on bandwidth.

If there is to be no CW-only subband (either by regulation or by agreement), CW ops should consider exercising their right to operate in the phone subband rather than in the data subband. And they should make known their reason for changing.
--Paul W8TM
<mailto:w8tm@arrl.net>

I can legally use any mode on any frequency (well, at least on HF).

The b'cast service intrudes so far below 7100 & amateur & intruder SSB operations go all the way down to 7000, so because RTTY is illegal for JAs below 7025 kc that's why I end up a bit above there.

BTW, 7025 kc is one of a myriad of frequencies out here where Voice of America can be heard, so let's see USA clean up its propaganda operations before telling rest of world what to do, okay?

As for 2009, since the b'cast service has long disregarded the 7100 kc border - just like we have no sharing at HF with the radioloc service yet China & (for far longer) the United Kingdom use amateur service allocations for OTHR contrary to the ITU-RR ToF - believe what you like... the reality of the times we live in is to give two fingers to anything we collectively agree to within a UN body (if the SC can be ignored, who need pay heed to the likes of ITU or UPU?).

Simply amongst amateurs the situation looks bleak, as we in Hong Kong took up the issue of bandplan militancy from (primarily) Region 1 & it seems to be have been ignored, despite acceptance in Region 3.

I think there is no solution, so this year I've decided to go QRT.

73, VR2BrettGraham.

--VR2BG

* It may be legal for RTTY stations to operate in the heavily used CW segments, but they should have the courtesy to send in CW, "QRL?" before starting up. With essentially all RTTY operation being created by a computer program, this should be easy even for a beginner who can't copy CW. I have never, ever, heard an RTTY station do this before starting up right on top of CW QSO's already in progress. It seems like many RTTY operators have little concern about their impact on others.

* I would respect a widely published RTTY DX window, say 7030 to 7035, for international teletype QSO's (only). That window could be all the time, contest or not. (Again), it seems like RTTY stations have no concern about QRMing CW stations or they would seek some kind of gentleman's agreement like that.

* I think there should be no intra-continental RTTY contacts, contest or not, below about 7.060. (Again), it seems like RTTY operators have no concern about their impact on others.

* I also think the big CW contests should have a frequency upper limit so as not to obliterate the zone of frequencies traditionally used by digital modes. I think the organization sponsoring a contest has a responsibility in this regard in all contests.

* I think that the now inefficient RTTY form of digital operation should go the way of AM, and be severely frequency restricted. RTTY today is produced (almost) entirely using computers, not the old mechanical machines. It is a wide and inefficient way to perform digital communications. Therefore, it should be restricted like AM to small segments of the band. People should be using more efficient modes such as PSK31.


* Because of the above, there should be no such thing as RTTY contests, ever, just like there is no such thing as an AM contest. it should be replaced by more efficient mode like PSK31.

* Because of the above, the ARRL should NOT sponsor RTTY DXCC which just encourages use of this inefficient mode. It should sponsor PSK31 DXCC instead.


- Fred


--Fred

There was a comment on cq-contest that suggested
RTTY operators were making stateside QSOs down near 7040, therefore supposedly the argument was bogus as to why RTTY should be in the traditional CW region in the first place. The comment missed the mark. Here's why:

1. See IARU Region 1 band plan for 40m RTTY.

2. See JA band plan for 40m RTTY:
[7025-7045kHz for RTTY]
http://www.jarl.or.jp/English/6_Band_Plan/JAbandplan.pdf

3. In the contests where there is no advantage to contacting Europe or JA, there will be no activity down at 7040. Take NAQP RTTY and the RTTY Sprint for example. The activity is around 7080, with nothing found below 7060.

4. In contests where there is an advantage to contact EU and Asia (CQ WPX RTTY, CQWW RTTY, other DX RTTY contests), the 40m center frequency will adjust to 7040 to contact stations in EU and JA per their 40m RTTY bandplans.

5. Yes, there will happen to be stateside stations contacting each other around 7040 in contests such as CQWW RTTY and WPX RTTY. The reason that this happens is that this is the activity area for 40m RTTY due to the focus on DX. If I'm in W6 and CQing on 7080 at 03Z in CQWW RTTY, I will get some stateside answers, and will guarantee that I get no EU answers. If I called CQ at 7043, I would get some EU mults, and also get a lot more stateside answers because the East Coast center frequency for this contest has shifted down to 7040 due to their interest to look for EU, thus there will be a much larger potential audience in the U.S. around 7040 than 7080 in CQWW RTTY. Same example with me in W6 CQing to JA on 40m. If I CQ at 7080 in WPX RTTY, I have guaranteed myself to not make any JA QSOs or prefix mults because I have operated way outside the 7025-7045 JA band plan.

6. Making CQWW RTTY the same point and mult structure as CQWW CW and SSB will result in shifting activity even lower in the 40m band, since this will prevent any stateside station from CQing above ~7060 for stateside QSOs. Yes, this may prevent the West Coast from CQing on 40m at 03Z and free up some space, but that space will be taken by the increased stations that shifted downward. This also does not solve anything when the West Coast CQs to JA on 40m between 7025 and 7045. In fact, it will attract more stations to this window and guarantee that it will be filled because of the focus on DX on all bands, and therefore stations would be here instead of getting stateside mults on 80m in the morning or going for a 20m stateside run.

73...
-Dean - N6DE

Hi Don
This is a good idea. I think it will stir up some interesting responces. It sounds to me after reading the blog so far that I will need to sell my model 19's and ST 5 demod units along with my Globe king 500 and Collins gear.
I am not sure how to modulate rtty its always been fsk here

Jim
--KF9XK

Keep the wars up! Keep trying to vent your anger on the bands! This is so stupid! See all the radios/ antennas/ and the rest of the junk. Take your wife and kids for a walk. They would appreciate it! I've heard all this crap for over 25 years. It's like a broken record! Or should I say CD !

Don,
Thanks for the work in compiling this. I posted the link digital radio reflector. Those guys are hoping that RTTY contesting will go away and leave them alone. They don't understand why RTTY is used rather than some of their fringe idea modes.
--K3KO

Band warfare has been going on for ages and I don't see it stopping anytime soon. If Region 1 would open 40 up to the Region 2 dimensions, it would take a lot of the heat off those precious 100 Khz.

I think this is just a sign of the growth of the hobby, digital modes in general and RTTY contesting specifically. More big gun stations are in the mix and the level of competition has gone up tremendously. Neither a good or bad thing, just the fact.

Just as we had with the beacon interference discussion before, each of us has a choice what frequency we transmit on. It doesn't matter what frequency others are, if no one answers, they will me. Lets individually set out where we are willing to xmit and stick to it. If we lose a q or a mult, c'est la vie. The situation can only be corrected by individual action.
--Neal - k3nc
<mailto:nealk3nc@gmail.com>

How and when did RTTY take over the lower portion of 40 meters? The way I remembered it was that CW was from 7.0 - 7.050, and RTTY was 7.050 - 7.125. Something is wrong with the band plan here, as there is hardly any activity above 7.050. Maybe statewide contests should change their calling frequencies to the upper portion so the RTTY guys can get their DX stations on the lower portion.